📍
I do think so many of us, particularly women, we do sort of. matter how strong, independent, successful, career-driven type A we are, I think many of us still have that internalized people pleasing side to us.
📍 So objectively it was a success. And yet for me, as the person behind the scenes. was anything, but I was, I was an emotional wreck.
📍 We oftentimes, we just, as business owners, right, we oftentimes get so caught up in the idea of growth for growth's sake that we. forget to pause and consider the strategy behind the growth. Obviously, growth is good because that usually means more revenue, which usually means more profits, right?
Like, yay, good growth equals revenue, equals profit. That's a good thing. at what cost,
📍 📍 Alright. Everyone so far on this, on this show, we've had some of my favorite people, and we're gonna keep those vibes going with Megan Shapiro. Hi Megan. How's it going?
How are you? I'm so excited to
Oh.
again.
Yes, I I'm good. I'm good. You, I again? Yes. Megan has done two podcast interviews with me back when I first started out experimenting with podcasts and we had construction trailblazers, and that's how we first got connected.
I think like end of 2024. Is when I entered your LinkedIn universe and then I was blown away at the, the audience and the community that you have curated on LinkedIn. I was just like, holy cow, this person is amazing. Um, but for a quick snapshot into Megan, we'll let you also share a little bit about yourself.
But Megan is a beast in the contracts. Uh, one of like. The most down to earth, but incredibly smart people you will meet, especially when it comes to law, especially when it comes to law in construction.
And your mom, you've got a lot going on. What's really cool about all the things that you also do, Megan, is you are really locked into a specific niche, which I don't think is gonna end up being the topic for our whole show today with you, but it has come up in some other episodes with some other guests.
And so I, I also, I just wanna take some time to understand a little bit of like, how did you like really decide like, we're gonna serve construction, we're gonna, yeah, we have some GC clients that like subcontractors and wanna be good people, but for the most part, you serve commercial. Subcontractors, like how did that niche develop for you?
You know, it's interesting, I think like the way most successful niches develop. It kind of naturally happened. So it all started when I kind of came into the world of 📍 construction law through the law firm. And when I started at this law firm, I'd been practicing law for two or three years. I was like a little baby lawyer and had come from a lot of, uh, criminal background.
And so when I started at the firm, the firm back then had a much smaller construction practice at the time, and their main client, I say their because I inherited it. But the main client at the time was a trade contractor. And so when I came in as the new attorney, in the firm, they sort of handed it down to me.
That was kind of the custom of practice for how the firm would train new lawyers. And I got super lucky because around the same time that I came in, that trade contractor happened to hire a new general manager within a couple of months of when I started as well. And so he took over their litigation portfolio on their side.
I took over on my side. We both kind of looked at each other and said. Hmm. We don't really know exactly what our predecessors were doing, but this is a great opportunity for us to build this out the way we want it to be. 📍 And so we really got to kind of take that litigation portfolio, wrangle it, manage it, and craft the management style the way we wanted to craft it.
And through that, I discovered. absolutely love concrete, like who knew? Um, like a complete fascination with like the science behind it and everything. So, um, I uncovered a love of concrete. I uncovered a love of construction law I ultimately went to the partners back then and said, Hey. I don't want this to be the thing that continues to get passed on to new lawyers. I wanna own this, I wanna grow this practice area. I wanna stick with this client and I wanna bring in more like them and grow this practice area. And that's exactly what I did. And I think the trade contractor part of it was because that's how I started. Who knows if that original client had been a gc, if my perspective would be different, but. They weren't. And so the bulk of my clients have always been trade contractors. To your point, Sam, like I, I do have GCs, I do have design professionals. Um, I do even have some owners. So I've represented sort of all the stakeholders in a construction project at various points in my career. But I kind of always end up coming home to the trades. I sort of like to say I fell into construction law and then fell in love with the trades, and that literally became true as well because that's also how I met my husband. He was a father. Yeah. Yeah. So he was actually a hybrid project manager slash superintendent for one of my trade contractors when we first met.
And he was, um, very heavily and actively involved in their risk management. And that was kind of how we really sort of connected in the, in the early days of us getting to know each other. Spoiler, he has joined the dark side. He started working for, oh, you didn't know this. Oh my gosh. He started working for a gc I'm, yeah, a gc, uh, a little over a year ago. Um, and so he, he has left the trades. He's joined the dark side. But I really appreciate it because it has given me. A newfound respect, appreciation, and understanding for, um, where the GCs come from. And the caveat to that, of course, is always, as you said, with the good GCs, right? There are good GCs and bad GCs, just like there are good trades and bad trades. Um, but I do have a little bit more of a newfound understanding and empathy for the GCs, which to be honest, I think makes me better at contract negotiation for both sides.
Yeah, well, I mean, we need more of the good guys in with the GCs, right? So it's like he's joined the dark side, but he's yin and yanging and he's ringing some light to it, which is, is good. And I appreciate what you said about like, understanding both sides. Like I, I. Only because a lot of my construction LinkedIn folks are on the trade.
So you see a lot of hate toward GCs and sometimes that is totally warranted. I get there's quite a few bad actors out there. Um, however, I think not enough, like we are not frequently enough considering the other side. And that happens all the time in business and in life where you're just like, who can I point the finger at?
Um, instead of like, how can we just make this a little bit better? Right? Uh, okay. But I, uh, go, let's go back to. You've curated a really cool LinkedIn community. You have also expanded from just practicing law in California to then like teaching others how they can understand their contract. So you can, you're this contract coach, you've got this, do it like a lawyer thing.
And something I I heard in your story with this first client was really a theme of collaboration of 📍 how can we work together on this rather than like, ah, this is my sliver of the pie. Like, don't touch it. Right? Um, and, and I see that theme happen. Quite a bit for you and that then goes into like, you've got this other side thing, which is not so much a side thing anymore. It's growing called Converge. It's the Converge Construction Summit, which I think everyone needs to check out. It w it is. I only attended the second year, which was last year, 📍 so we're on the third year now, and I thought it was so beautifully put together, but it's also all about collaboration and it had this origin story around that.
So give us some more insights into how that baby was born.
Yeah, it's like I'm so excited. I, I always get so excited when, when I get the opportunity to talk about. It converged because it started as an offhanded comment, and now it has become this. Thing. Right. Um,
Mm-hmm.
just, I love it. So yeah. So early in my LinkedIn journey, um, when I was first sort of discovering what I love to affectionately call the construction corner of LinkedIn where all of these amazing, wonderful people have converged, right?
You're getting a preview as to where I came up with the name. Um, but when I was early on in that LinkedIn journey, I, uh, 📍 I was a guest on my very first podcast. It was Josh Harvey's podcast. I don't think he is making new episodes. Anymore. But, uh, he had a podcast, uh, back in probably mid 2023. And we did, uh, a pre-recording conversation to just kinda get to know each other better. Kind of prep for the actual recording of the podcast and as part of that conversation I sort of said like, gosh, do you remember in the pre COVID days back when we all used to like get together in person?
Wouldn't it be cool if a bunch of these like awesome, amazing people that are active on LinkedIn in the construction side of LinkedIn, we all picked like a city that we all wanted to kind of hang out in and picked a weekend and we all just kinda went there at the same time so we could meet and hang out. 📍 he was like, yeah, that sounds like a great idea. Like you should, you should organize that. And I was like, okay. Hmm. So I kind of floated that idea to , a couple of other LinkedIn connections, Jesse Hernandez was another one of those early, like, wouldn't it be cool if, and I, and I kept getting positive feedback about it.
So I was like, okay, I'm gonna be thinking about that. So fast forward about a month or two, I was, uh, sitting in, sitting in my office here at the firm and I was listening to another episode of Josh Harvey's podcast because he was interviewing another one of my friends, John Goose Dunham, so I wanted to listen to that episode because he was interviewing, uh, goose. And so I've got a plane in the background all at my office working, and all of a sudden I'm, you know, typing it away, probably reviewing a contract. And I hear them start to say, so are you gonna go to Megan's conference? And I
Like, wait, what?
Yeah, I was like, I, I'm alone in my office and I'm like looking around for anyone to be like, wait, what? What has happened by my what? Right? So I'm listening and they're like, oh, yeah, yeah, I'm gonna go, yeah, it's gonna be great, blah, blah, blah. Right? They're going on and on about it, and I'm like, grab myself.
I'm like texting. I'm like. My what guys? What's happening, right? So, um, it all kind of grew from there. So that first year there were about 13 people who decided to take a flyer on me. I kind of scrambled, I, I actually roped in my dad to help me organize that first year because I was like, I don't have to organize a conference.
I've go to conferences. I've never organized one. And my dad had been, um, in sales and uh, in construction sales for part of his career, for his entire career. He's semi-retired now, so he had some time on his hands and I was like, Hey, dad. Let's put your sales experience and your many conference attendance experience to good use.
You're gonna help me plan a conference. that first year we were in Savannah, Georgia. I crowdsourced everything I, I took to LinkedIn and I said, okay guys, where, where do we wanna go? So I let everybody kind of pick the location. I let people pick the time. I was like, all right, what time of year do we wanna do this? So we ended up picking Savannah in September. And there were 13 people who took flyer. They were like, okay, we don't really know what this is gonna be, but like, we like Megan, we like the people that have expressed an interest. Let's see what happens. So 13 of us converged on Savannah, Georgia in September of 2024. um, it was, it was kind of magic, right? Like we kind of bootstrapped together the curriculum. That first year we did a, we, we rented a, a conference room. We did a full day of conferencing at a, at the Hyatt in Savannah. We did a bunch of extracurricular activities to kind of bond and get to know each other better.
And it was, it was magic. Like everybody who came. Almost everybody who came got work as a direct result of having come. Whether that was because of collaborations that they created for with each other, cross referrals or hiring each other. And before we even left Savannah, I came in going like, okay, well that was. Fun, but like, I hope y'all enjoyed it. We're never doing that again. by the time we loved Savannah, literally like that first, the night we all went to dinner together on a riverboat. After the conference was over, everybody was like, so where are we doing it next year? And I was just
Wow.
God. So, um, I couldn't say no. And so in 2025, we more than doubled in size.
Mm-hmm.
you, Sam, to the fold. Many others joined us. I officially rebranded that first year. We were like, I think I called it. Um, LinkedIn in real life, hashtag Savannah in September. It
it was construction, LinkedIn in I like in real life, it was so long.
I know. It was just like, it was a novel just in the name.
It was, it was
Yeah.
So when we find, when I was like, okay, this is gonna be a thing, like we're gonna continue to do this, that was when I, uh, officially came up with Converge Construction Summit. Um, I liked the idea of Converge because not only was it all of these amazing people that. Our, our main commonality, our main thread that tied us together was simply. Construction corner of LinkedIn, we were all converging together. But also my long-term vision for Converge has always been bringing together both those who serve the construction industry like you and me, Sam, as well as those who actually in the industry. And so my long-term vision has always been to bring those two groups of people together to create curated opportunities for collaboration. Relationship building and working together. And so that was kind of how the name Converged Construction Summit came to be. So we were in Chicago, or I'm sorry, we were in, um, Sedona in 25 last year. Doubled in size. Everybody was all on board for continuing to do this. So it's, I'm, I'm, I think I can now officially say it will be an annual conference for as long as people wanna go. Uh, with
Yeah.
goal of doubling in growth every single year. So for 20. Six. We are coming right up on Converge 26, which will be in Chicago this year. We are capped at a maximum tickets sales of 55. We have increased not only the number of attendees, but also the amount of programming. So we have gone from one day to a day and a half. We still, of course, have our super fund curated extracurricular activities to continue to build those, uh, relationships and those bonds. We have welcomed a whole new slate of speakers, which includes you, Sam. So, uh,
So excited.
converged speakers for, for Chicago.
Y'all listen me, I got accepted to speak at Converge and then Meg, hopefully I can say this, but Megan texted me afterwards and it like, made my day, made my week, I blushed super hard. Uh, and she was like, I want you to know I didn't pick you just because you're my friend. Uh, but she took all the speaker applications, plugged them into chat with like her requirements of what she wants, wants to converge to be about, and like.
Let, let chat pick the best speakers from there. And I made the list so I was like, yo, blush and hard over here, but I think it's so cool. You went from 13 to what? Last year was like 30. 32 people.
Um, we were right, we were just under 30. Our room max
Okay.
and then we had one person who, um, had an unfortunate family emergency. She wasn't able to come, so we were
Yeah.
But she ended up not being able to come. So I think we're right at 29, including
Okay. So yeah, 29, right? Um, and then now you're gonna be at 55, so almost doubling for this year, but still like awesome growth. And it all happened organically and because you were like, cool, like how do we give the people what they want and the industry what it needs, which is like the baseline for success, y'all, which I think is, is great.
Also with that, I mean, we hear a little bit of the people pleasing of, of Megan happening there, right? You got like roped along, but you did really good. You did awesome with the opportunity that was like you were voluntold to do, right? Uh, but I, I wanna know like how did we balance, like, okay, yeah.
We were, people pleasing, told to do this, but then we also wanted to make it a really cool experience. We had 13 people and then we more than doubled in size to get to 2025. And you have this really great program as well for 2026. Like what really? Was your journey and like discovering what you wanted it to be and creating a strategy where you didn't crowdsource everything, where you took a little bit more ownership for what you wanted it to be like.
How did that look like?
Um, I love this question, um, because you of course have a little bit of a peek behind the curtain. You already know some of the answer to this. Um,
I.
I appreciate the opportunity to talk about it because I do think so many of us, particularly women, um, we do sort of. matter how strong, independent, successful, career-driven type A we are, I think many of us still have that internalized people pleasing side to us.
Right? And so, um, you're right. Like I. It was my idea. And so like, of course, like I had to just sort of like go with it because I suggested it. I can't throw this thing out there and then be like, well, I'm not doing it. to, to sort of steal Jesse Hernandez's phrase, I have a bias toward action, right? And so I kind of just, I did it because it was my idea. Um, but what it became was not what I had originally conceived. I actually was thinking something much less much less organized, and really a lot more. Relationship forward as opposed to sort of conference forward. Um, but as I sort of crowdsourced what people wanted, that wasn't what they wanted.
And so I did sort of subjugate my vision for what it was originally supposed to be, in favor of pleasing and giving people what they wanted. So along that journey, I had to really sort of stop and say. It's great to give people what they want. I, I'm happy to be able to be the person that can do that. What cost? And I haven't shared, uh, this story publicly, so this is kind of a, a, the first time I'm talking about this in this forum. last year in Sedona was actually very emotionally challenging for me. And, and, and you of course are one of the very few people who I talked to about it in real time, Sam, and I appreciate you being there for me. Um, but it was, it was surprisingly emotionally challenging for me, um, by all objective measures. Sedona was a success for what it set out to be. Right. Like I think from an attendee perspective, and, and I'd love to hear your thoughts on this too, Sam. I think from an attendee perspective, it was great. Like it, it, it accomplished everything it set out to do.
It delivered on all the promises that were made to attendees and, and ticket holders. And everybody wanted more. Everybody was super excited. Everybody in the room was already planning for 2026. So objectively it was a success. And yet for me, as the person behind the scenes. was anything, but I was, I was an emotional wreck.
I mean, when I say that, I was literally in tears driving back to the airport to fly home. I'm not exaggerating, and I couldn't figure out why. It, I mean, I, I loved seeing everybody. I loved connecting with everybody. And it was like I said, um, by all objective measures of success, and so I had to do some deep work on why I was reacting so negatively to what was objectively such a positive and experience. I did a lot of soul searching. I talked to a lot of trusted people. I talked to my therapist. I had several therapy sessions about this, um, and worked through this even with my own business coach. And through all of that, what I sort of realized and uncovered was. The reason I was having such a strong emotional reaction to a successful hosting conference experience was that disconnect between what I wanted it to be and what everyone else wanted it to be what everybody else wanted it to be was too emotionally draining and taxing on me. And so I had to figure out, okay, if we are gonna continue to do this, if I am going to continue to do this, I've gotta figure out a way to. Make both things coexist. It's gotta be fulfilling to me and not draining and still give people what they want it to be. so I think that's why Chicago looks so much different than both Savannah and Sedona because I have done a ton of behind the scenes deep work to figure out what that looks like. And it has forced me to sort of reconcile that need to people please with. Creating something that I want to build and create. And so I am sad to say that I think that I will probably lose some early adopters as Converge continues on the path that I want it to go on because the real tension distilled down to. A lot of early adopters who I value and love and appreciate because we wouldn't, I wouldn't have this conference if I didn't have early adopters, but they really want it. They want converge to stay small. And for me, it was always about the people and the relationships and the collaboration opportunities, I want it to grow. And so there is a bit of a tension there between staying small and growing and I think. That what I'm trying to build for Chicago will be the litmus test for those two things because I do think there is a way to maintain all of the positive things behind being small because I think that that's just an easy way to articulate the feeling that converge gives, but still allow for growth.
And so, um. I think Chicago will be a really great test to see if I have been able to unlock that formula. I think I have. I think I've built something for Chicago that will still keep that feeling, that vibe of small connectedness. But on a larger scale. And so, um, I, I'm hoping that that's what it will be.
Time will tell when we get to Chicago in June of 2026. we'll see if I was right, but, um, I am comfortable and have finally accepted the fact that even if it's not right, I still have a vision for Converge and what I want it to be. And I'm comfortable with tweaking and experimenting and shifting and changing.
, I think that that's really been the big journey for me. And I forgot your question, but I hope that answered it.
is Okay. That answered the question. There's a lot, there's a lot to unpack there. So we're gonna, I'm gonna work my way back through your, your story there, so I wanna start with you, you made a great point about the feeling, I wanted to dive in with you, is really like your, your journey here, um, around alignment and around making it.
Kind of what, what you envision it to be. And lining up strategy with vision was kind of my, my initial thought of where this conversation would go. But I wanna take a segue here, uh, because I think everyone could always get better at sales and marketing and understanding your customer and what exactly you're building and.
You hit on such a wonderful, beautiful point about the feeling. So when I think when people say, I want this to stay small, really what they're saying is I wanna still have a, the opportunity to connect deeply with these other attendees, which is not something I can typically do when I go to a conference that's 1000, 10,000 people.
Right. And it is a skill in sales to hear what someone is saying and understand what they actually need and want from that. Like, I know like on the virtual assistant side, you know, a client might come to me like, oh, well I want this VA to do this task, this task, and this task.
And I'm like, what you're really telling me is you don't wanna think about these processes. While you grow in this area, like you don't wanna think about how you're gonna get this outcome. You want someone to own this outcome, but you're thinking in like to-do list check boxes and tasks, right? And what's cool being someone that that knows behind the scenes, what I think is super cool in the converge messaging is, to any other outsider, maybe even someone that didn't join, that saw messaging for 2025 and did it buy a ticket, that now they're looking at your landing pages, your emails and things, and it simply looks like.
You've matured like, oh yeah, this is the third year. Like it makes sense how they're growing in this, in this capacity. But as someone behind the scenes, I'm like, look at how electric Megan is. Look at how like she's excited. She's about to knock my socks off. Like when I see your messaging, I'm like, Megan is aligned with what Chicago is going to be.
And I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but like that's the vibe I get from not even talking to you about it, just from like reading your stuff and knowing you. That's what I'm getting.
I love that. No, that's, that's. Super validating to hear because, that's exactly it, right? Like I'm, I, I'm so much more excited about it because I'm on the path of being able to unlock the secret for. Giving people that small vibe and feel and that opportunity for connection, but still being able to grow.
And I think so much of that is in strategic growth, right? We oftentimes, we just, as business owners, right, we oftentimes get so caught up in the idea of growth for growth's sake that we. forget to pause and consider the strategy behind the growth. Obviously, growth is good because that usually means more revenue, which usually means more profits, right?
Like, yay, good growth equals revenue, equals profit. That's a good thing. at what cost, right? Like there's value in pausing and thinking and stopping and saying, okay, could I have gotten a a to continue using converge as the example for, or the metaphor for this, um, explanation. Could I have gotten a room for this year?
That's a hundred. I, yeah, of course I could have. I could have reserved whatever room I wanted to reserve, and I could have just set the goal. This may sound cocky, but it's not really about me as much as it's about the converger that we already have. I think we could have sold a hundred if I, if I had the space, I think I could have sold it this year.
And again, I don't mean me, I mean all of us, right? Because so many people are so invested in converge. Most of my ticket sales actually come from word of mouth, from people who've been before. It's not even my efforts. So that's not braggadocious. I'm just simply saying, this community is magic. And so if I had wanted to go to a hundred this year, I think I could've. But that's not strategy, that's not strategic growth. And it's really important to pause and, and really think through the strategy behind any growth plan so that it's not just growth for growth's sake, because that's not necessarily always sustainable. what I'm looking for is sustainable growth, which means I need strategic growth.
And strategic growth for me means not growing as fast as I could, but growing at a rate and a pace that will allow me to keep the secret sauce of what converge is, which is that small feel, even as we have more people in the room.
I love, I love a good secret sauce metaphor. I love, you know, I'm like, what are we cooking with today? But, I mean, let's, let's lemme dive a little bit into that. 'cause that's gonna go to one of my other points that I, I want to bring up here of, when we talk about you really understanding the strategy behind your growth.
You mentioned how much, how you did a lot of reflecting, and I wanna, um, if I can, not to like put too you in the hot seat too much as the guest here, but emphasize to people that this is like not an. Overnight discovery. Megan did so much work to understand what was the disconnect of Sedona and you went to like different aspects of your life, right? You have your business peers. You went to a business coach, you also went to a therapist for this. And so you really dove into this from multiple angles in your life. And it was like multiple months that it took you to find this discovery, right.
So yeah, it was a multi-month thing, right? Like, um, you and Jesse were wonderful day of right, where it was like all raw. And I was like, I don't know why I'm crying. I don't even know why I'm upset. So that was great to like kind of just process, like in the immediacy.
But yeah, I did, I I had several follow-up conversations about you with both you and Jesse af you know, in the weeks and months afterward to try to kind of process it out. Several sessions with my therapist, my, like, you know, personal therapist to try to work through it. Um, of course speaking to my husband, kind of working through all of it.
Um, and then the sort of energetic alignment was really interesting. And I, I don't wanna get too much into it because it's very off topic for, for this podcast, but, but yeah, I did, I even did some sort of like horoscope astrology, looking into what it was about the geography of Sedona and the impact on my energy level, all of these things. But I think, um, I think the real nail in the coffin is such a. I think that's probably wrong because nail on the coffin always seems like a neg has a negative connotation to me. But maybe soda straw
Final puzzle piece.
final
The puzzle piece. Yeah.
the thing when it's a positive thing instead of a negative thing? So yeah. So I think the final puzzle piece for me was, um, I actually went to an in-person retreat with my business coach. So I'm, I'm participating in a year long mastermind currently I did last year too. Uh, but I'm currently participating in a year long mastermind, uh, with, it's all women and we are all located all over the country doing all sorts of different things.
Our, our core common connection is that we're all attorneys with side hustles, and so the, the, the mastermind sort of focuses on. The side hustle part of it. And so because we're all located all over the country, my coach herself is in Tennessee. Um, I'm of course in California we do. So we come together in person twice a year, uh, as part of the mastermind.
And so I just got back from my, in my first of the year in-person mastermind in New Orleans and our opening, um, event like before we got together for anything like the very first time, we all saw each other. Was a welcome dinner that required us to come to the dinner as ourselves five years in the future. And I'm, when I say that, I mean full role play. Like we were supposed to bring props. I, we were supposed to dress like ourselves five years in the future. And all of our conversations were supposed to be as though, so like I had to talk about my 11-year-old instead of my 6-year-old. Right? Like it was full immersion ourselves as five years in the future. of course we all gave that thought and consideration ahead of time, like, what? What will we be in five years? But you never know what questions people are gonna ask you, and so you can't anticipate every answer. so somebody asked me about converge in five years, and that was not something that I had necessarily. Thought about that way. I mean, of course I thought about what converge could be, but not in that way. Like I think they specifically said how many people are coming to converge this year, which would be 2031, and I had not thought about that. And I had to kind of just like, I just think about it at all.
I said, oh, we're gonna be a thousand this year. And I was, I surprised. Like I, I, like I said it, and I like was visibly surprised as though I was hearing it for the first time too. My coach was like, what? And everybody else was like, what? Because everybody has known, it's like this small, it's small, every likes this small.
And I was just like, oh, we're a thousand. We're gonna be a thousand in 2031 that, yeah, we're a thousand this year. I've got a, I'm, I'm selling a thousand tickets for this year. And so, um, I I, I found that to be so insightful, right? Because it was, it was just. From my core, right? I hadn't given it any thought.
And that was the first night of, uh, the Mastermind get together. Because it was such a surprising answer for my coach, for me and for the women in the group who've been with me. One of them in particular, uh, was, was in the mastermind with me last year as converged with Sedona going from 13. So, so everybody was so surprised to hear this answer that it sort of became the focus of what I worked on while we were in New Orleans in person. And so it allowed me to get really clear and really dig down on that to see if that really is what I want. And I think that, I think, Sam, you would agree that the. To your point earlier about the messaging about Chicago and what vibe you get from it, now that you're seeing it, I, I think you would agree it changed after I got back from New Orleans, and I think that that's because all of that work, all of that deep thought and consideration and digging and thinking, and. and all of that stuff solidified, and that has now gone into the messaging. And so, um, so yeah, it was, it was a many, 'cause that, like I said, that was just in January and, uh, Sedona, Sedona of course was last June. So it, to, to your point, yes, it has been many, many, many months in the making as I have gotten clear on. Processing through the feelings with Sedona and then what I want converge to be as we grow. So preview, we're gonna be at a thousand for 2031. People mark your calendars.
Yeah, get it on your calendar right now. I've, I love that because it's just like, this is the raw answer, like you said, like it's from your core. And for a long time I had trouble with people that were like, you have to have alignment in your business. And I'm like, get outta here. Like, I'm just trying to grow, like step aside with your dumb alignment questions.
And I'm like, oh wait, this is really important. And how I've kind of, how I'm, I'm understanding alignment to be like. Yes. So sustainable and strategic growth is a result of alignment in your business and really what does that look like? And I'm like, okay, it's, it's this authenticity. It's this organic growth, and then it's this intentionality with that on, oh my gosh, I cannot talk authenticity.
Right to create your strategies to have this alignment. And I think that that's so awesome. And so I, I, I guess I'm also curious as a, as a listener, as an attendee for Converge, like, yeah, I'm speaking guys to come check me out and speak. Uh, but I'm also gonna be attending for the rest of the time, right.
I'm curious as to how are we then, like St. Que, we're gonna balance this growth with what the people need because some of those OG early adopters are not necessarily wrong in the fact that like when it is small, you do get better connections. So what is the, the curated experience to still kind of honor that while growing and making it impactful?
Yeah, absolutely. Um, and, and this is sort of the like experimentation phase of Chicago, right? So this is what I conceive of the answer to that question right now, and we'll see how it goes in Chicago and if we need to tweak and adjust. But, um, I'm starting with. A, uh, an alumni only welcome event, right? So that way we've got specific time set aside for everybody who's already met and already has connections to reconnect.
And the intentionality behind that is I want them to have that time and space alone apart from new people so that way they can kind of get that. Get it outta their system. I mean, not that's, that's not really the right way to say that either, but to sort of fill their cup in that way
Mm.
before there's new people.
Because if there, if we do it all together, right, if we just do one welcome, happy hour, in my mind, everybody's that knows each other is gonna be gravitating. Oh my God, I haven't seen you in a year. Oh my god. Bright. And the new people are gonna be like new people at every conference and they're gonna be like looking at each other. off to the side. Maybe they know a few people, maybe, maybe some of them are outgoing enough to kind of join a, a, a conversation. But I don't want that pressure. Right, because I, we, I don't think we talked about this, uh, in this conversation, but. Spoiler. I designed, converge the way that I did originally because I am one of those people.
I, people are always, people who know me are always surprised to hear this about me, but I am super shy in rooms where I don't know people, so I do terrible at large conferences, and that's why I wanted it to be small when we started. I am not the girl that will walk up and start a conversation, even with people I know if they're in the middle of another conversation, like I don't wanna interrupt.
I feel like if they wanted to talk to me, they'd come to me like I am all in my own head. Right, and I'm not saying it's a good, it's not
You are not alone in that though. Like I, I mean like, hey, like I guys, when I first got to Sedona last year, Jesse, our friend, Josh, Megan, they're all sitting and having lunch. I definitely. Did a jump down the stairs to say hello, but that's a small group. And then you put me in a large group and I'm like, hi, does anybody wanna be my friend?
I just know, you know, like, and, and so I love that like, let's not create clicks here. Let's honor friendships. And I do think like, get it outta your system. Is there, I don't think that's offensive. Like I need to get it outta my system to give hugs, say hello, catch up, make people feel good, and then I can go say hi to the new people and that then it is, you're avoiding the whole click dynamic, which I think is so smart.
Yeah, that's, that's the whole idea. So I'm giving space. For all of us, all of us alumni, to get together and reconnect we welcome in the new people. And again, one of the beautiful things about the Converger, that's what I call by the, by the way, that's what I call people who've been to converge. Uh, that's what I call the
Yeah.
the converger. Um, our converger are magic, right? Like everybody is awesome. There are not,
Hmm.
One person that you're just like, Ugh, I hope they're not there this year. Like everybody is magic, right? And so we intentionally talked in Sedona about this and everybody saying they want to participate in welcoming in new people because they want all people, like all the new converger to feel welcome, to feel a part of, to not feel like they need to.
Find someone to talk to. They need to hide in the corner and hope a more outgoing person comes and gets them. Everybody's on the same page about that. So by giving the alumni the converges, the space to reconnect with each other, then we can all get together with our game plan and welcome in the new people.
So immediately after the alumni only. Happy hour, we're gonna have a regular happy hour to just open the conference for everybody. And so that's where the new people will come. And then hopefully the alumni, the converters that are already there, will welcome them with open arms. I, I saw, I was at a conference years ago the keynote speaker, I can't, I, I wish I could remember her name and her book because I'd love to give her a shout out because this is the, I loved how she explained this.
She talked about bagels versus croissants. Have you heard this,
Yes, Uhhuh.
Do you know who she is? I would love to give her credit.
Oh no, I didn't realize that. Like this single person came up. I just heard it at like a networking thing a few years ago.
I don't
Okay.
Yeah, so for those who don't know what this is, the idea is when you're in a big group setting, you can either be a bagel where you're a closed circle, where whoever is in the conversation, you're a completely closed circle, or you could be a croissant where there's an opening so people can come and join in. And I love that because I am a person who would not join a bagel. And so I'm like, oh, I need to look for my croissant people. And so I try to always be a croissant person too. Like I wanna make croissants. Um, and so I, that's what I envision. The overall general happy hour being is just a. big croissant or a bunch of little tiny croissants, not a bagel in sight, because I want to welcome people and have them feel like, oh wow.
It's like no different for me being here the first year than it is for the people who've been here now year three. . So, um, so that's what, so it starts there to get back to the part of your question and I'm hoping that by planting that seed early, because again, that's Wednesday night, that's before we get together for formal conferencing on Thursday morning. I'm hoping that by planting that seed, , it will continue to grow throughout the rest of the conference and, and people will still then feel like it's got that small vibe. The other thing that I've done since Savannah as well. Is curated activities that happen outside of the conference hours. Now Sam can't speak to this because she chose not to come
I
year.
chose to go to bed guys. I chose,
bitter about it. Um, but so
I'm sorry, I'm a grandma in my soul, I was like, I'll do dinner and then I am going to sleep. But everyone had an awesome time. They did a, well, a stargazing Jeep tour and they all got cool glasses, like light up glasses. And I was like, I don't have glasses in my swag bag 'cause I'm a grandma.
Uh, but I might join this year. I might join.
say, I'm putting you on the spot on your own podcast. So this year our fun activity is gonna be, we're doing, um, the architectural Chicago River. Crews. Um, and we're doing it. So we'll be doing that Thursday evening. So, uh, we conference all day Thursday. Um, so you get breakfast and lunch with your ticket, uh, con curated conferencing all day Thursday. Uh, and then it's the, like I said, it's optional, right? Like if you, if you're an old, if you're an old granny like Sam, you don't have to come. I highly recommend it. Usually the best bonds happen in these curated, uh, activities that happen outside, right? And so everybody will meet up, um, I and the information so you make sure you get the right boat, the right time, the right place.
All that stuff's on the Converge website, converge construction summit.com. It's all there. Um, but we'll all meet up together and then we get to kind of just hang out and have fun and experience this cool thing together. It's a sunset cruise on the Chicago River. It's narrated with, um, explaining all the architecture of the, you know, the skyline of Chicago along the river, which is, you know, ties in, converges into construction of course.
And so, um, so that curate those curated activities are another way that I try to really keep that small vibe and feel, um, and the connection regardless of, of how, how much we grow.
Yeah, which is, I, uh, I do feel put on the spot. I do feel like I can't be a grandma this year. I've gotta go on the river boat tour and just have like a, an espresso at the end of my dinner so I can stay up. I, I want to also nitpick, 'cause you, you mentioned conference all day Thursday and I, it's also a day and a half, right?
So we have some conferencing on, on Friday as well, and I don't want people to get scared of that word. And this is where I will be a little bit arrogant, uh, in saying, uh, not that I'm speaking, but arrogant in the fact that like, usually when I go to conferences, I do not go in with high hopes that I'm gonna learn Jack shit.
Like, I'm usually like whatever they're presenting on is gonna sound like common sense. Uh, it's gonna be a pitch for whatever book they're trying to sell me. Like I'm just gonna ignore it. And I know like that my energy is gonna go toward the time outside of the sessions. Right. But last year in Sedona, I was.
Pleasantly humbled where I was like, oh, like that's a good point. Like, oh, that's a good point too. And then looking at the speaker lineup this year beyond me, I might just flop y'all. I might fall on my face. Uh, but looking at the speaker lineup beyond me, I'm like, oh, like I am so excited to hear what everyone else is going to present on.
And just like the discussions that come from those and the light bulb moments that someone else has. Spark something for me. So yeah, we are conferencing all day Thursday and part of Friday, but like, it's gonna be fire, in my opinion. I have high expectations and I do not doubt that Megan and the speakers will meet those expectations and I'm a hard person to please.
That's my arrogant thing of like, I'm hard to please. I'm high maintenance. I know I seem easygoing most of the time. You can ask my husband though. I'm a high maintenance gal. Uh, but I'm excited. I you've, you've got an awesome lineup.
Thank you. Um, and I kind of wanna go back because you, you previewed it, uh, at the, be towards the beginning of our conversation. And I wanna talk about it because it's important to me because I. Do think we are such a, a tight-knit community on LinkedIn. I think there could be a perception from, I don't wanna use the word outsiders, but when I use the word outsiders, I mean maybe people who haven't been to converge as an
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
um, that converges just all of my friends give it.
Like, I'm just giving a platform and a stage to all of my friends. and that's why, to, to your point that you kind of alluded to earlier, Sam, I wanna elaborate a little bit. This year was the first year that I actually took speaker applications. Right. Because the first two years we were so small. The very first year I did most of it.
Like, it was like, I think half of the day was me teaching Do it like a lawyer skills, right? Like heuristics and sales techniques and things like that. Um, and then a couple of other converters that are comfortable speaking, I gave the, I was like, yeah, you wanna do some stuff? 'cause we, I don't know what this is, right. last year, uh, was a little, was more, was a little bit more intentional, but this year was the first year that I actually. Put out a call for speaker applications and did not want to just pick my friends. And so because it's just me, I'm so converge is small enough that I'm still just a one woman show.
I would love to pretend that I have some sort of like committee that reviewed all of the applicant. I don't, I don't have a committee. It's just me. So I wanted to be able to remove any potential bias from the process, and so I did. I went to Chachi BT. I get and chat, GBT is very familiar with what Converge is because it's, you know, my brainstorming partner and always has been.
And so I, I told it what I wanted it to be, what my growth goals were, what it has been in the past. I gave it all of the speaker applications, every single, every single part of every single application. The application was not short, it was pretty lengthy. and so I gave it. it, and I said, curate agenda because I don't want this to be, I don't want my bias in here in any way, shape, or form. I would say 90% of the current speaker lineup is what chat GPT selected. And the only 10% differential is that some of the speakers that applied ultimately ended up declining when I offered them the spot. and so I filled those, I filled those holes. Um, and some of that was my own personal selection based off of people that I have seen at other conferences, and so I know their value. Um, it was not just because it's my friends, it was people that I've seen and I was like, Ooh, I learned something. And I think converges can learn something. So, um, so I, I do just wanna, I, I, I think that's worth highlighting so that people don't have this impression that like, okay, I'm gonna go to this
Yeah.
And it's just gonna be like Megan gave her friends a stage. That's not what happened at all. Um, I've never even met Michelle Rourke, who, um, is our first speaker that I just highlighted. Um, I know we're not, I know this isn't gonna be released for a couple of months, but on February 16th. did a speaker highlight for Michelle Rourke.
She is gonna be doing an amazing interactive workshop, um, that's, uh, sort of EOS based and influenced, and I'm
Cool.
excited about it and I've never even met her. We've, we've even, we've had a small number of conversations really, and most of them were about her speaking application. and so it is not at all just an opportunity for Megan to give a stage to her friends.
I think there is true value, um, in what everybody has to present. The other thing that's gonna be a little bit different. Is I've built in intentional opportunities into the the agenda for. Whole group processing, whole group brainstorming sessions.
I mean, they'll be curated, right? So it's not gonna be a complete free for all. There will be structure to it, um, but there is an opportunity for everybody to share whether they're a speaker, whether they have the stage, whether they have the spotlight or not. Everybody that's there has valuable insight and information to share.
As we learned in in Sedona and Savannah, some of the most valuable insights came from those sort of like group conversations. And so I wanted to make space for that, even as we grow. And so there's gonna be plenty of that as well. And so I have a feeling that just like in years past, some of the best insights are actually gonna be from the attendees who are sharing in that format, as opposed to even the speakers on stage.
I am so excited for that. And yeah, like when you, like, I wanna hear what is someone else interpreting this as? Like, how were they hearing it? What did it spark for them? Uh, 'cause. Yeah, the speaker is super smart and awesome, but maybe they're also like limited or tunnel visioned on like their solution. So how does that solution
apply to somebody else? So I love a good, what is that? From like school? It's like the Socratic. Socratic method of Yeah, we're like, oh, which I hated in school of like, you've got the inner circle and the outer circle and then hot seats. Right. But as an adult, I think it's super awesome. And on top of that, the fun activities are not just outside of the conference.
I'm pretty sure Jessie, again, we're dropping Jessie's name a bunch is leading like two dance breaks. So we've got some bachata happening. Y'all, it got some energy pick me ups happening. I, I, again think it's, it's. It's gonna be curated, it's gonna be intentional, authentic. That alignment is there.
I'm excited you've got a fan for life. I am not an early adopter, but I am a, a fan. I'm a chia leader. I'm on on the, the, the bandwagon. Is that,
early
go.
Like I,
I'm early enough that
yeah, I sort of think of like the first 30, I mean like the
Okay.
will always, of course, have a special place in my heart because they really were just like, I
They went for it.
money down the toilet. Like they flew to Savannah, Georgia, just being like, none of them had ever met me in person.
None of them like the, so the, the, the, the OG 13 will always be like. The real ones. Right. But I always, I,
Yeah.
always think of the first 30 really? Because I don't blame anybody who that who on that first year was like, me see how this goes first, and then
Yeah.
try it out.
Okay. So I'm still part of the cool kid. Click. Then we can still do that. Okay.
of Converge. Everybody who joins is part of the Cool Kid Club.
There you go.
what your, what your graduation year is, right? Like as soon as you be, as soon as you come, you're in the Cool K Club for life, unless you choose to opt out.
And I love that we're, uh, I love kind of the high school references here 'cause there was a text thread where I tried to convince Megan to have it saved by the bell. Uh, theme go in like eighties, nineties, uh, theme. But, uh, for those that have not been on her email list and have not yet followed, Megan, let me definitely look her up on LinkedIn, Megan Shapiro.
Uh, but the theme is how the work gets done. And I love the, the description here of, it's not how the work should get done. It's not like what we think is best in theory and textbooks. It is how the work. Actually gets done how we actually have success, have great teams, have good companies, uh, and all of the, the good stuff that comes from that.
So, super excited. Go check out Megan Shapiro on LinkedIn or converge construction summit.com. I promise it's easy to put into your, even though it sounds long, it's easy to type in. Y'all. You can do it. I believe in you. Uh, but thank you Megan, just for the rawness in this conversation and sharing the journey and the, the authenticity behind Converge and how it came to be 55 people this year.
Yeah. Well, thank you for having me as always, and thank you for creating a space that makes it easy to be vulnerable, Sam, especially for somebody like me
Okay.
to, I'm Scorpio. I don't like to be vulnerable, so, uh, I
I'm a Leo. I will burn the vulnerability out of you. It'll come out. Light the fire. Alright, thanks.